Greatest Hits 2021-2022

Host: Matt Hall 

Matt Hall (00:06): Welcome to Take the Long View with Matt Hall. This award-winning podcast reframes the way you think about your money, emotion and time. The goal, helping you put the odds of longterm success on your side.

Matt Hall (00:25): Okay first, a special announcement. In 2016, my book Odds On came out and it's changed my life and made an impact on thousands of readers and much like this podcast the book makes its points through stories and has no overt financial advice. It's not tactical, instead it's something bigger, it's about how to think. It's been a transformational accomplishment for me and has taken me from the Netherlands, the book has been converted to Dutch, to North Dakota, where I spoke to students who were addicted to trading stocks on the Robinhood app. But why am I talking about the book? Well, this is the news because the paperback version of Odds On is being made as we speak and I have 20 signed copies to distribute to listeners who might be interested. Email or send us a direct message via Instagram and we'll ship a copy to you for free.

Matt Hall (01:19): Okay, as for today's solo episode, I want to do something fun. Ooh, I am so excited to bring you the top 10 clips from this past season. I think you're going to love what I've prepared for you. There's some of my favorite snippets from our guests and here they are.

Matt Hall (01:42): Number one, create time for yourself in nature. David Coggins said it best and let's jump to a part of our conversation that I've plucked. Nature reminds you that you're connected to something bigger and being connected to something bigger allows you to let go of the small stuff and letting go of the small stuff makes more space for the good stuff. Increase your time in nature in 2022. Take it from David Coggins. Here he is.

Matt Hall (02:13): Okay, so one of my favorite quotes of yours early in the book, this is I think on page three, you say, "Standing in a stream on a weekday afternoon in late spring, casting to trout is a more conscious decision. I still do it for the sheer joy of being outside, of concentrating of the doubts and rewards of being connected to a fish, of landing and releasing it. Fishing offers an internal reward and that personal satisfaction is enough. This is the same am reason why a good lunch, a proper three-hour lunch where wine is ordered by the bottle, not the glass, is so rare and rewarding. This escape is not exactly illicit but it certainly takes you outside the course of events of the day."

David Coggins (03:02): I always sound like when you read it, it's very convincing.

Matt Hall (03:06): That's how I heard it in my head. I thought, I need more of those rare and special lunches and maybe I love the idea that a weekday fishing experience too is different.

David Coggins (03:18): You know a lot of productive, successful people and I know a lot of them too and I'm always interested to see how they conduct their lives and impressed by all the great things they do and accomplish. And I'm all for that. And I also like sometimes to take a little break from that and I think people have a really hard time, especially Americans in my experience, to taking time away from what they consider to be productive. And I think maybe over the last two years with everything that's been going on, people had a reconnection to things they were passionate about when that could be baking or reading Russian novels or fly fishing or sailing or doing something else, gardening. And I think one of the things I try to argue for in the book and that I believe really strongly is that it's important to have something, those types of passions in your life.

David Coggins (04:02): And they don't happen by accident. You have to cultivate them. You have to create space to do them and then hopefully get better at them. And there's something very satisfying about making a souffle rise or making a good cast on a fly rod. And I think it's not going to happen by accident. You're not going to just have a passion and a hobby and a skill and get better at it. You've got to make time for it. And I think I like it when people do that. And I'm always impressed even if it's something I wouldn't do myself, I like it when people become very interested in watercolors or whatever it else it is in their lives.

Matt Hall (04:32): But they make the space for it. They allow for it and they tell themselves, it's okay.

David Coggins (04:38): Yeah. I usually find out first time you do it, whatever it is, people are going to say, "Well, that's a little drastic." Once they know, the first time you tell them you're going fishing, they're like, "What's going on here?" The second time they're like, "Okay, I guess that's his." By the third time, it's like, it's your thing and people are used to it.

Matt Hall (04:56): Number two, don't be done. Have an encore quest like Gerry Marzorati. Gerry, if you recall, is the longtime editor from the New York Times Magazine who talked to us about his own personal encore quest and the book he wrote about Serena Williams. Like Gerry, you can create an encore quest, always being curious, always learning. Gerry developed a skill when others are typically shutting down. He's engaged and healthier both mentally and physically. Don't be done. Here's our clip from Gerry.

Matt Hall (05:37): But you called your pursuit of tennis at the stage of life you're in, an encore quest. And I hadn't heard this expression before and I want to ask you, where's it come from?

Gerry Marzorati (05:49): Well, the short answer is, I don't know. But it's out there in the culture. If you Googled it, you'd come upon it. Some people call it after Jung, second life but it's really about, okay, you've had a fulfilling and satisfying career. You are now in your sixties and is there something else that just is far afield from what you actually did with your life? For me, I was a magazine editor for 40 years. Really I was interested in finding something to do to engage my body. I was never an athlete. As much as I tried, I was just junior varsity material all through high school. I was barely taller than five feet and I was about a 115 pounds and was in a pretty tough high school, blue-collar high school so I wasn't going to be an athlete in that setting.

Gerry Marzorati (06:43): And I always loved watching tennis but I had never played. The neighborhood I grew up in, no one played tennis so I just decided my kids were, one was heading off the college, one was a junior in high school. They were at that state age where they didn't expect you to be helping them to occupy their weekends so I started taking lessons and got quite engaged and involved and started eating a different way, started exercising a different way. Doing all these things and tried to turn myself into a 60 something tennis player and it's been one of the best things I've ever done in my life.

Matt Hall (07:20): But just so the listener knows, you didn't just decide to take up tennis casually. You were pursuing a level of tennis accomplishment that I think, I don't know if you agree with it, the word I think of is mastery. You went to camps. Adult camps and had your swing videotaped and were doing special exercises. This is a pursuit of intense curiosity in all different types of tennis, not just learning the strokes but building your body and your strength and your strategy.

Gerry Marzorati (07:55): Yeah, that's true. And it happened gradually and then happened quickly. I fell in love with it really. I think one of the keys to that is that I fell in love with being coached and learning a craft, essentially. Learning something that there was a right way to do it. And this right way was done with slight variations by everyone who at the highest level. And could I master this craft? Which was completely different than say mastering the craft of reading, if such a thing is true. But it was about that kind of commitment to the game but also to the coach. I felt like this is a person imparting this knowledge. And when I wrote the book and talked about the book, I always said, "It didn't have to be tennis. It could have been for someone else maybe it was cabinet making or cello playing or who knows what?"

Gerry Marzorati (08:51): But here you are, if you were lucky enough to be someone like me, you were about to retire. There was going to be money in the 401(k). There was going to be some pension. I wasn't going to have to scramble to earn a living but what could I do? What could I do that would really satisfy this urge I had to do something that I had never done before, that there was a tradition and that I could enter this tradition and if I worked hard enough, I could absorb this tradition.

Matt Hall (09:27): Coming in at number three, one of the funniest guests I've ever had, Jason Gay, the writer from the Wall Street Journal. I'm absolutely in love with this one. Cool can't be bought. Here's Jason.

Matt Hall (09:44): You have a section there where you say, "Free yourself from trying to be cool." I especially love this little section here. You may be cool at the exact moment you do not think you are cool. You were cool when you stopped everything you were doing to help someone, when you listened instead of talking, when you met the person who would become your partner and you were so nervous you could barely string words together. You are cool when you talk to your mother on the phone. Please do not let your mother know this because telling her is uncool and she will never stop calling. That section to me is so Jason Gay, because it's funny and truthful and poignant.

Jason Gay (10:30): Yeah. And reminds me that I'm doing a lousy job of calling my mother on the phone, which she helps her remind me of. Cool is a fun, fertile topic. Because it's probably the human quality that is most sought after, through advertising, through imagery, through the things that we are constantly bombarded with, whether it's in advertising environments, social media environments, just our walkabout way we in interact with people, what we look at people, what we desire, covet, how we interrelate with other people, how we fall in love. Cool is just this very sort of indescribable quality and yet so incredibly present in the way that we are told to behave. And I think the thing that is very hard to put your finger on is that what we find most cool or the people or the individuals or the actions that we find most cool are things that are unconsciously cool.

Jason Gay (11:24): We're all kind of very aware of the person and maybe we've been that person at times of our lives, I certainly have, where we think we're cool. We've got the right jacket on and our hair's looking pretty good and we're going to the party and our friends are going to be there and that person isn't cool. They're probably a little bit of a cartoon of it. The people that we hold up as sort of iconically cool, whether it's a Paul Newman or an Aretha Franklin or Aaron Rodgers in the pocket of third-down or whomever it is in our lives that we'd look up at school. They're not actively seeking out to be cool in the moment, they just are. And so it's this kind of interesting quality in that we're all kind of chasing it. We're all kind of being sold products and qualities and life enhancements that are going to give us cool. But in the end, eventually it's just this intangible quality that certainly can't be bought.

Matt Hall (12:26): And number four, boring is not bad when it comes to investing. Here's me saying the same thing in one of our prior episodes.

Matt Hall (12:37): I think about this a lot because I'm a huge 60 Minutes fan. I love the stories they tell. They are master storytellers. And there's an old episode where Charlie Rose interviews, Steve Wynn, the highly successful casino owner in Vegas. And I'll never forget the exchange they had as they were walking through one of his new multi-billion dollar casinos. And Charlie Rose asks, he says, "I want to understand a bit about the casino business." Steve Wynn replies, "So do I." And Charlie Rose says, "Have you ever known anyone in your entire life, any gambler who comes here and wins big and walks away?" He says, "Nope." He says, "Over the entire stretch of time in your career, you've never known a single person to walk away over the long run a winner?" "Nope." "The only way to make money is to own the casino," Charlie points out. "Yep," Steve Wynn admits.

Matt Hall (13:52): I think if you really think about that example, what it means is the shows, the restaurants, the shops, the bells, the whistles, the dinging of the machines, it's all about getting us distracted instead of emphasizing sort of the long-lasting, dull and boring math that is a winning combination for the owner. We're emphasizing all these short-term, whiz-bang, exciting, pleasure-based temptations. And it's such a fascinating connection to try to make with investing where so many people treat investing like it's a game where they want sort of the bright lights and the bells ringing. And I think of CNBC and so many of the hosts who play on the short-term, pleasure-based weaknesses of the investment community. And what I want to tell you is that boring is better. Not saying boring in all aspects of our life. We need some excitement in some places. I'm saying, boring, boring math, boring economic principles, those are the things that are truly satisfying.

Matt Hall (15:20): Number five, discipline and how you get it through the three Es with Dr. Daniel Crosby. I love this clip because Dr. Crosby has a formula to help us think about how we can be more disciplined. And this podcast, as you know, is focused often on how we can make patience and discipline more attractive. Here's Dr. Daniel Crosby.

Daniel Crosby (15:46): Yeah. I have three Es. I have three Es for changing behavior. And I created these specifically with financial behavior in mind but I think it works broadly. The first E is education. Education is necessary but not sufficient. And one of the things that education is good for is what we call meta-knowledge, which is basically knowing what you don't know. I know that I can't fix my car, so that's a form of education to know my limitations, to know that if my car breaks, I'm going to take it in. One of the things that's important about educating yourself with respect to finances is knowing what you can and can't do on your own and when you need to bring in a professional. Education is sort of the base of that pyramid.

Daniel Crosby (16:37): The second thing there is environment. Environment is a much better predictor of behavior than education. If you don't want to eat a donut, better than knowing that donuts are bad for you, is not going to donut shops. Not putting your self in a place where you're going to be tempted to do the wrong thing. In a financial context environment looks like having a good portfolio. That's the kind of portfolio you can live with through good times and bad. And then being careful about what you put in your head, not watching sort of hysterical cable financial news reports that are likely to lead you down a fearful path and the like.

Daniel Crosby (17:19): And then the final piece is encouragement. Encouragement is the coaching aspect, the advisory aspect. Even if you're educated on the right things to do, even if you're putting yourself in the right environment, we still all have of moments of weakness and that's where we need the financial advisor or the personal trainer or something to kind of step in and give us that nudge, that personal touch that helps us stay on the path. I looked, I did some pretty extensive research on the effects of working with financial professionals. And we found very consistently that people who worked with financial advisors were happier by an order of magnitude than the general population. They were better prepared for an emergency. And on average, they had 2.73 times the wealth of people who had gone it alone and that's not candidly because financial advisors are picking the best stocks for them or just putting them in the hottest asset classes. It's because they're giving them that encouragement that keeps them from making a mistake at an inopportune time.

Matt Hall (18:29): Number six is without question, the deepest thinker we had on the podcast, Dr. Robert Cloninger and the message here is, think about your lens, the healthy outlook you have, the unconscious backdrop for how you process your thoughts and emotion. I know, it's heavy and deep. I had to listen to the episode three times and I bet I understand about 40% of it. He has a lot to offer and I'm so grateful Dr. Cloninger spent time with us. Here he is talking about a healthy outlook.

Matt Hall (19:07): Do you want to talk at all for a minute about snakes and ropes?

Robert Cloninger (19:13): Well, this is the other kind of bias. There are two major steps that bias our perceptions and our understanding. The first is what you just referred to, is the story about if you're walking in the forest and you're a little bit anxious and you see a long, thin thing, you're likely to that maybe it's a threatening snake when it's just a rope or a vine. But if you're in a calm state and you're alert and not overly fearful, you may look at it carefully enough to discern that it's not something threatening. It's just a harmless vine but that's an example of the distortion of cognition by the emotional state that you're in. And then beyond that, the second step that even if you are fairly calm, you may still be having a perspective of separation rather than unity and that will also bias your perception of other people's motives.

Robert Cloninger (20:14): Both of these things are very important biases to become aware of. And so we've developed meditations to help people or just practices of life to help people realize just what it is that gives them satisfaction. You mentioned acts of kindness to cultivate cooperation. We also have exercises about acts of setting goals and accomplishing them. Maybe something simple just like your posture sitting in a chair. And if you do that, if you work on something to better yourself, you find that then you develop more self-confidence and that generalizes to other acts of hope. And then there are acts of faith that we can do too, to sometimes control our tendency to be too cynical and skeptical, to really live in a sense of our connectedness to the community and nature. And we get that if we do things like gardening, walk in the forest, just a stroll with your dog or a family member or someone.

Matt Hall (21:21): Number seven, a guest who has alliteration in his name, which I love, Hal Hershfield. The tip is, think about money as it relates to your future self. This is a concept that has made Hal somewhat famous and I loved our conversation. Here he is helping us think about how we develop a clearer connection with our future self.

Matt Hall (21:49): I think one of the core takeaways as I've read your work is we have to feel some sort of connection to our future self because if it's vague and abstract, the whole idea doesn't really work. And I want to know how do you think you can help us figure out how to better understand or connect with the future self?

Hal Hershfield (22:10): Let me pick out two things there. First off I have to say, I used to think this is simply a matter of thinking more about your future self, considering that future self more. And you said something that really resonated with me, which is this idea, do I even know my current self, who I am now? And I think as we get older, as we sort of progress through life, you start realizing what you know and what you don't know. And my opinion over the years has changed a bit to recognize that in some ways we can never fully know our future self because we can't anticipate all the things that will change and in all the ways that our preferences will be shaped by external forces that we can't predict.

Hal Hershfield (22:54): I kind of want to move away from the idea that it's a simple case of just getting to know our future selves but rather I think the question of how can we bond with our future selves becomes a deeper on of how can we think in deeper ways about what will happen to us as time unfolds and how our certain preferences and attitudes may remain the same and how certain other ones may change and be altered and in what ways can we at least start having conversations with our future selves to promote? I was going to say better decisions now, but it's really promote decisions now that will result in more positive outcomes over time, both now and in the future. I think that to me is the trickiest nut to crack because it's not just how can we make people save more and go get a higher percentage of their paycheck. That's a big part of it. But that's not going to be great if they're miserable now. It's always going to be about that balance there.

Matt Hall (23:49): But let's go to the practical level. Your work suggests that if there is a connection between my present self and my future self, I may start to make decisions that contribute to the success of the future self.

Hal Hershfield (24:09): I think it's really useful to start from the perspective that our future self might be considered as if it's another person. And when you take that lens, that analogy if you will, then you can start to say, "All right, fine. Well, how can we promote stronger bonds with other people in our lives? How do we create situations where we empathize with them?" And of course, one of the things we know is we can make the targets of our empathy more vivid because vividness is emotional and emotional examples drives behavior.

Matt Hall (24:39): Wait, hang on. I think that sentence is so important we got to say it twice. We got to do what Oprah would do, which is say it twice. Vivid images are emotional and emotion is what drives behavior.

Hal Hershfield (24:53): Exactly.

Matt Hall (24:54): Wow.

Hal Hershfield (24:54): Exactly.

Matt Hall (24:55): You want to create a vivid image of this future self. I assume technology could do this for us. We could all do that sort of simulation thing maybe.

Hal Hershfield (25:05): Of course. And this is some of my earlier work we did just that. We've shown people what they'll look like in the future. And I laugh now looking at some of the things we did 10 years ago because they're so clearly inferior to the stuff you can do today in a snap of your fingers on your phone. Right here, where I am in LA, there's companies associated with Hollywood that can age progress people's faces in ways you can't even imagine. And the beauty of that sort of intervention or that sort of exercise is that it is so vivid and it creates this real, concrete image to attach to when we're thinking about the future or when we're thinking about our future selves. Now we've tested these image just out in different research studies, finding that when people are exposed to these images or confronted with them, as you said earlier, people are more willing to make sacrifices for the long term.

Hal Hershfield (25:57): And we've just wrapped up a study looking at this sort of intervention in the field. The large bank in Mexico, finding that the consumers who are shown images of their future selves were a little bit more likely to make a contribution to their personal pensions, which is like a 401(k). I actually think it's important not to overstate the power of these things. This is in a way, this is one tool. To come back to what you were saying, the vividness and emotion. This is a specific tool that gets that vividness but it's not saying that it's the only way. I think that part of what I'm interested in exploring is what other ways can we get people to really create and conjure up more vivid images of their future selves? Can it be through letter writing exercises? Can it be through imaginary conversations?

Hal Hershfield (26:45): I've heard of financial advisors engaging what they call the two chair method where you have a table and you have two chairs and you have your client sit at one chair and the opposite chair there's no one there but they're supposed to be their future self and they talk and then they switch seats and then they sit in the seat of their future self and they talk back to their current self. And it sounds a little strange to do in a client-advisor meeting but I love the idea of it because it really heightens the concreteness and the vividness of a future self there.

Matt Hall (27:16): Number eight, everybody talks about needing balance in their lives but my guest Tammira Philippe says, "Balance needs to be reframed." Here's my friend and CEO of Bridgeway talking about balance and what it means to her.

Tammira Philippe (27:34): Well, one idea that is really what drew me to Bridgeway and that I still feel like is conventional wisdom out there that I just want to turn on its head is this idea that people are striving for work life balance and I think that's completely wrong.

Matt Hall (27:54): You don't like that.

Tammira Philippe (27:55): Balance is boring and frankly, I think impossible. I think my mom told me that I've never had balance in my entire life and I'm pretty sure I won't ever. I'm really focused and what I saw in Bridgeway made me want to come here and want to make it a bigger reality that more people can be a part of, is doing our life's work a 100%. That our lives, we spend so much of our lives in work. And if we're trying to balance, our work is not in harmony with our life outside of work, that's all wrong. The idea is that we have to reframe how we think about our work and I've done this successfully most of the time in my career. When I find myself off track, this is where this is where I find myself is thinking about my work and finding the things in my work where I am really expressing my values and I'm really doing things that are in harmony with what my life goals are.

Tammira Philippe (29:04): And my favorite example of this is to think about just anyone. And I work with several colleagues at Bridgeway who just come to work every day and they are excellent at what they're doing. They are trying to be the best in the world. My executive assistant is like this. She is absolutely trying to be the best executive assistant in the world. When I close my eyes and think of what the definition of excellence is, the image of her comes into my head. I have another coworker that she cannot give you something that is not excellent by her standards. And that's where you might be doing something boring like you have to enter all the assets into the database. But you reframe that for yourself and think about, I'm doing things excellently.

Tammira Philippe (30:01): And this idea of doing our life's work a 100% I think needs to replace the idea of work-life balance. And that area of work-life balance, a lot of people try to talk about that as that's the secret to solving our gender imbalance problem in the workplace and all of that. No, it's everybody doing their life's work a 100%. And when we foster environments that make that happen, that's good for men, that's good for women, that's good for the underrepresented minorities in our organization and that's what we need to be striving for.

Matt Hall (30:44): Number nine, be the tortoise. One of my favorite clips from this season, the tortoise and the hare. Here it is again.

Matt Hall (30:54): Remember the old story of the tortoise beating the hare? Let's go back just in case you don't remember or aren't familiar. A hare was making fun of the tortoise one day for being slow. "Do you ever get anywhere?" He asked with a mocking laugh. "Yes," replied the tortoise. "and I get there sooner than you think. I'll run you a race and prove it."

Matt Hall (31:18): The hare was much amused at the idea of running a race with the tortoise but for the fun on of the thing, he agreed so the Fox who had consented to act as a judge, marked the distance and started the runners off. The hare was soon far out of sight and to make the tortoise feel very deeply how ridiculous it was for him to try a race with a hare, he laid down beside the course to take a nap until the tortoise should catch up. The tortoise meanwhile, kept going slowly but steadily and after a time past the place where the hare was sleeping but the hare slept on very peacefully and when it last he did wake up, the tortoise was near the goal. The hare now ran his swiftest but he could not overtake the tortoise in time. The race is not always to the swift.

Matt Hall (32:13): The same is true in successful investing but we as humans are wired differently, that and the modern times have us set up for giving our attention often to the apocalypse de jour. As Jason Gay, sports columnist for the Wall Street Journal and future podcast guest of this show said recently, "Nobody gets clicks and famous for taking a long view. Hell has to be served in a hand basket, preferably with a clever baiting headline. If you haven't freaked out about at least three things you've read by 9:00 AM, you're not doing it correctly." That's often how it feels to live in the modern era and my mission is to be the voice in your ear that counters what is out there, to widen the gaze and help you take a longer and maybe more relaxing view.

Matt Hall (33:10): And number 10, let's go back to where we started with David Coggins, take the long view, of course. Number 10 has to be connected to the title of this podcast and David uses take the long view in his book, The Optimist, beautifully. Here he is.

Matt Hall (33:30): Okay well, I want to highlight two spots where you say the long view that really meant a lot to me. One is earlier on in and one ends at the very end but at one point you say, "The water is the center of this universe and it dictates the rhythms of the day. Outfitting the drift boats, rigging up in good weather and bad, the days when the fish are everywhere and days when the fish will not turn on. Gas station coffee in the morning then bad beer that tastes perfect after landing the first trout. The weeks turn into seasons, a wider perspective and ultimately the long view. When it no longer is about one fish or one good day, it's the life." Oh, so sweet. How do you do that? How does that happen?

David Coggins (34:20): It was an interesting thing writing about fishing. I was reluctant to do it for a long time because there are people who are true experts, who work for Orvis and they are guides and they are professionals and they instruct people in the best techniques and that's not me. I try to enjoy things and put them in some perspective and that's enjoying the culture and the food and the guides and the clothes and the drinking and the travel and all that together are the things I care about and of course the fishing. And so I think at a certain point, I started to write a little bit about fishing apologetically. I wrote for some magazines and some websites and then finally I thought, this matters to me.

David Coggins (34:59): It was a step to admit that. The same way is it was a step to admit fishing was a huge part of my life because my family kind of rolls their eyes sometimes or my girlfriend doesn't know what she thinks about all it when she says, "Wait, you're going on another trip?" And I've said, "Didn't I mention that? I was sure I mentioned it to you when you were half asleep the other day, I mentioned it." And I think admitting you care about something is a strong thing.

David Coggins (35:23): And I think in writing the book allowed me to articulate some things that I maybe hadn't thought about a lot. And then it was an interesting time to do it because of everything that's happened in the last year and a half. When you really, we could think about the things that matter to us because we either couldn't do them or we couldn't be with the people we wanted to be with or in the places we wanted to be. It all, I don't want to say it all worked out, it's an evolving situation, the complicated way we live. And I just feel lucky to be able to write about something I care about.

Matt Hall (35:53): Well, you do such a beautiful job of highlighting I think the humility that's required to really operate at the fishing level you operate on. You say at one point, "The more you're on a stream, the more you realize how much there is to know. I take a longer view. There's no other way." And I think that's what's awesome about the way you use that phrase that connects to the way I use it is in many ways, it's about humility and accepting and dealing with and embracing uncertainty. That you are getting better and better at your craft and yet still you have to stay curious and humble and the chase and the pursuit of this whole thing and especially the pursuit of it with people you care about and people you love and watching people who have never had the same level of joy by catching their first fish, being a part of that, being a teacher. It's all such a beautiful mashup of sort of wonderful observations. And I don't know, I just feel grateful that you took the time to put this in the world because it's really, really a lovely thing.

Matt Hall (37:02): Wow. So much fun to look back and listen to some of the best clips from this season. We're going to keep recording and we've got more great guests coming your way but with the world in perpetual apocalypse mode, it feels more important than ever for me and I think for us to feel like we belong to a community, one that values patience and discipline and is devoted to staying the course, staying above the noise. And this podcast is a big part of that for me and I hope it is for you. There are sensible people out there and many of you who email me feel like the kind of tribe I'd want to be a part of so thank you for listening. You've sent me kind messages of support, suggestions for future guests and thoughtful ideas related to investing in life. And it's absolutely my pleasure to bring this podcast to you and my hope for you is that it brings you a wider gaze and of course, a longer view.

Matt Hall (38:09): When have patience and discipline paid off in your own life?

Matt Hall (38:17): Please note the information shared in this podcast is not intended as advice. The intent is to share meaningful experiences. I am likely not your advisor nor wealth manager, nor financial planner and my opinions are my own and not necessarily shared by Hill Investment Group. Investing involves risk, consult a professional before implementing an investment strategy. Thank you.

Buddy Reisinger: Hi, Long View listeners. I'm Buddy Reisinger, a longtime member of the Hill Investment Group team that helps translate Matt's thinking into action for our clients. If you like what you've heard and want to learn more, I encourage a go to our website, hillinvestmentgroup.com and sign up for a complimentary call or meeting. Matt doesn't dispense cookie cutter advice on the podcast because each of you is unique so go to hillinvestmentgroup.com, schedule a meeting and let's start talking. We can't wait to hear your story.