Season 2, Episode 6

Host: Matt Hall

Guest: Zibby Owens

Zibby Owens (00:00): When I do things, I am trying to make a difference. I am trying to be a leader and it doesn't have to be in politics. You don't have to be like that kind of leader. But when this pandemic hit, I had that in the back of my head. And as soon as I realized we're in it now, what am I going to do? I was like, "I have to make a difference. I have to help. I have to be a leader in the way that I know how." And that's in my little book world really.

Matt Hall (00:30): Welcome to Take the Long View with Matt hall. This is a podcast to reframe the way you think about your money, emotion, and time. The goal, helping you put the odds of longterm success on your side. Zibby Owens is a writer and mother of four in New York city. She's the creator and host of the award winning literary podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.

Matt Hall (00:53): And before COVID-19 ran a literary salon with author events and book fairs from her home. Now she has launched many initiatives to help during the quarantine, including an online book club, daily podcasts, a new essay site with original exclusive essays from podcasts authors called We Found Time, two Instagram live shows and an online bookshop.

Matt Hall (01:15): Zibby published her first article, a personal essay for 17 magazine when she was in high school and has been writing ever since her work has appeared all over the place. Washington Post, the New York Times, Parents, Real Simple, Red Book and on and on. She has appeared on Good Morning America, Good Day LA, Good Day DC, just about every good morning or good day show across the country you could want to find.

Matt Hall (01:36): Zibby's a graduate of Yale university and Harvard business school. Zibby has a marketing branding background and she currently lives in New York with her four children ages five to 12, and her great husband Kyle. And I'm proud to call Zibby a friend and I've been on her show. Zibby welcome to Take the Long View.

Zibby Owens (01:53): Thanks Mat. Thanks so much for having me.

Matt Hall (01:55): You are such a fascinating person for a variety of reasons we'll get into, but I wanted to start by talking about something that I find so peculiar in my own experience. I have had to pull my car over at least once, or I've found myself crying one morning while I was shaving and listen to your podcast.

Matt Hall (02:15): And I was thinking how many times when I listened to other podcasts, have I teared up? Zero. The only two times are times when I've been listening to your podcast. And your podcast is not necessarily a sad podcast. I'd say happy podcasts for the most part I think. But Zibby, what is it that is happening in your podcast that you think is touching people? Or is it just me?

Zibby Owens (02:39): I hope it's not just you. That maybe you're not listening to the right podcast. I think I have to add some other shows into your queue. No, I'm kidding. I think when I do my show, it's not like a show to me. This is literally just who I am. I am literally just having these conversations the way I would with you if we were at dinner. And I am not afraid to talk to people about really difficult stuff and people are really open with me in return and I'm really open with them.

Zibby Owens (03:10): And I think sometimes getting that visibility into other people's souls, not to be cheesy, but inner most feelings and things they might not feel comfortable saying to other people, hearing them say that can touch a nerve and make you feel less alone. And I think either can make you cry like you Matt or it can help or it can make you laugh.

Zibby Owens (03:28): But it's really just the stuff of life. That's really all it is. It's just the stuff we're all going through all the time presented in maybe a slightly different, more intimate way.

Matt Hall (03:37): Yeah. Well for example, you wrote a piece about losing your best friend in 911 and you actually read several pieces from different times and reflecting on grief and the experience in your relationship, and it was so beautiful first if you're listening to this, go listen to that episode. I don't know what the episode number is.

Matt Hall (03:58): But it's such a beautiful ... It's you not interviewing anyone. There's no guest. And it was such a beautiful thing to share, and it was unlike anything else I have ever heard. I would recommend that piece, especially highly, but that's a piece with no guest. That's just you sharing your thoughts.

Zibby Owens (04:19): Sometimes I read the essays. I write essays all the time, personal essays and articles and things like that. And a few times I've decided to dedicate a podcast episode just to reading my essays. In that case, I was talking about my friend, Stacy, who I lost on 911. And since that happened, it was 20 years ago or 10 years. I can't even do any math.

Zibby Owens (04:38): See, this is why I need you in my life. I've written about it over and over and over again, the way that people do. And they're trying to sort of work through something and they're in their minds and losing her was a huge moment in my life that changed everything else. I continued to write about it and of course it's not just my loss when I write about loss, it's everybody's lost. So you insert yourself into it. Yes. Anyway, I guess thank you.

Matt Hall (05:03): Yeah. Another time I can remember was you were interviewing Mitch Albom, who is most famous, at least I think for writing Tuesdays with Morrie. But you asked him a beautiful question about his experience doing Tuesdays with Morrie versus his latest book, which I think is called Finding Chica.

Matt Hall (05:18): And he got emotional talking about the difference between those two books. And I remember I was shaving in the morning getting ready and it stopped me. It was such a beautiful moment. That was just was stunning. I love that you bring those things out.

Zibby Owens (05:36): Because I asked him what the difference was in losing Morrie and losing Chica. And now I'm trying to remember, but yes, he started crying and then I was crying. But now I feel like this is making it sound sappy. Most of the time people are not crying on this podcast. But yes, there are times I have a lot of emotion and people opening up.

Matt Hall (05:52): But I think you, you have a unique ability to zero in on the juicy stuff. That's what I really like. And we'll get to this, but I don't know how you do it because you read so much and you have highlighted so many great authors and you really get to the core of the core. And I think that's just really rare. Let's go quickly away from tears and more to the juice of what you do.

Matt Hall (06:18): I know we're not going to any parties these days, but if you were, we were transporting ourselves to a normal party scene and someone said, "Zibby, what do you do?" How would you answer that now?

Zibby Owens (06:29): I would probably still say I host a podcast called Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books and I'm a writer. Although usually I don't feel comfortable saying I'm a writer since it's not like I'm a bestselling author or even really an author. But yeah, I would say I host a podcast. Although these days I'm doing a lot of other things. You know what I'd probably say? I'd probably say I host a podcast and do a million other things in the literary space.

Matt Hall (06:52): Okay. Well, in some ways it feels to me like you're also building a community and you're shining a bright light on people you see as rock stars. I think I've heard you say before that you consider authors to be rock stars. It feels like there's more than just a podcast happening like that. You're really building some new community or a community I don't see much of.

Zibby Owens (07:13): Yes, you're absolutely right. I need to find a better way to answer that question myself. No, you're right. And in another way, I'm also building this little mini media company because now I have a magazine and a podcast and I'm doing all these little talk shows and I'm trying to build up a bunch of different offerings. But what I'm really trying to do is help readers, help authors and help moms get through life. I'm trying to, I don't know, help as much as I can.

Matt Hall (07:41): Yeah. Especially during this time where we, I think all need all the help we can get. I love in a recent article you wrote where you're giving tips for making time for reading. I really like your sense of humor. You said, "Hey, read before bed every night. Make it a habit. Yes, I know all you want to do is drink wine, check Instagram and pass out. That's okay too."

Zibby Owens (08:01): That's usually what I want to do before bed, but I also read. I don't know. I just tell it like it is. I'm a mom, I get it. I'm just like, I don't know. I don't know. I just try to say what people are thinking.

Matt Hall (08:14): Well, let's go back for a minute because when I'm met you, the podcast was still in its early days. What was the original inspiration for starting to build this community and drawing more attention to authors? What got you going?

Zibby Owens (08:29): It's so funny the way that this is developed, because in a million years I never would have thought this is where it would be two years later. It started because I had been doing a lot of online essays about parenting that had gotten a lot of traction and a lot of reads. And actually Kyle and my husband who you know well said to me one night, "You should really write a book of parenting essays."

Zibby Owens (08:49): And I said, "Moms don't have time to read books." And then I thought, "That's funny. I'll just make that the title of my book." But then the people I spoke to you about it in the literary community didn't think publishers would find that funny, which is has turned out to be basically true. I talked to some friends about what else I could do.

Zibby Owens (09:05): And also at the same time, I wasn't even on social media, I had no platform. I had been freelancing. I co-wrote a book in 2007. I've done some things, but today to sell a book, you have to have either an unbelievable novel, fully written. Or to have a nonfiction book sold, you have to have some expertise or background or following. And I did not have that.

Zibby Owens (09:27): The fact that I was a mother made me just like everybody else and my writing while lovely was not enough. In the back of my head this new agent I had, I had the idea that I needed more of a platform. And then I went to coffee with a new friend of mine who's a middle grade author. And she said, "I think you should have a podcast." And I was like, "What's a podcast?"

Zibby Owens (09:46): Why would I even do that? Anyway, I went home and I sat on the couch with Kyle and we were trying to find the button for even how to listen to podcasts. And I was like, "What would I even do?" But because I've always been somebody who always just tears out magazine articles, and I'm always sending magazine articles to friends or things that I think are great. I was like, "I'll just read those. I'll read the articles online on my podcast and save people the time of reading them."

Zibby Owens (10:06): Or I'll read excerpts of books because I'm the person that people always come to like, "What are you reading? What should I read? What should I pack on this trip?" I thought I would do that. And then I found out that was illegal and that I would need legal permission for every single thing I read. I scrapped that idea. And I thought, "Well, I guess I could just go to the authors directly." And I tried it.

Zibby Owens (10:27): I literally Googled, "Easiest way to podcast," or something like that. And I did it on my phone in my bedroom. The first time I read an essay, like you were saying that I had already written and had gotten like, I don't know, 65,000 reads on HuffPost post or something. And I started and I was like, "I'm not even going to tell anybody I'm doing this."

Zibby Owens (10:44): Because I was very public. I've written several books in the past. And I was very open about the fact that I'm writing a book and then it didn't sell and I was mortified at the failure. I was like, "I'm not telling anybody what I'm doing. I'm just going to quietly do this. And then I'll talk to my couple of friends who are authors and I'll see how it goes." And that's it. And somehow now it's become this whole big thing. It's so funny. It's just so funny.

Matt Hall (11:07): Yeah. It is a big thing now. You don't strike me as someone who gets nervous easily, but what's something that's happened recently that's been either an inordinate amount of coverage or exposure that's really taken you by surprise or that's blown you away?

Zibby Owens (11:23): I just interviewed Alicia Keys this week and I was nervous. After I talked to her for two minutes I wasn't nervous because it was just like talking to a friend or something. She's so open and it was very easy. But beforehand, I was trying to calm myself down.

Matt Hall (11:38): Yeah. Okay. You've had 80 plus, I think, New York Times bestselling authors on your show. But have you ever had an author on where you hated the book? And if so, how do you handle that? Or did those people not even make it?

Zibby Owens (11:52): Those don't make it. I only want to have books that I feature that I like. Sometimes I don't end up liking them as much as I think I'm going to like them at the beginning because for any readers out there, you never know. It can sound amazing and then it can disappoint you or it can sound so, so, and then completely delight you. You never really know. I try. I try to skim a book and research the author enough to know for sure before I have it on.

Zibby Owens (12:18): But yeah, sometimes there are books that I end up not loving as much as I hoped I would, but then there's something really interesting about the author. It's getting harder and harder to pass on books because every book is really a conversation I could have with a really interesting person. And I think just to have written a book makes you an interesting person. It means you have something to say and a unique point of view. And at least the journey of writing a book, that's really interesting. I handle it by talking more about the person than the book.

Matt Hall (12:48): Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. That's the title. You want to talk at all about how the title came about? And then I wanted to ask you, is there room for dads and men? Is that another show? Is that a second

Zibby Owens (12:59): I've thought about that. I've thought about finding a dad to run that show and do a show and a kids show and all that. I have ideas like that a lot. I think that some dads do listen and I think that's great. At first people told me don't make it a show for moms. That's so limiting. And I was like, "Okay, if I could corner the mom market, I'm fine with that."

Zibby Owens (13:25): It's not a small market. I don't mean to exclude, but it is my point of view as a mom of four. That's just how I look at the world. If by no means is to exclude people who don't have kids or our dads or anything else. But maybe, who knows? Maybe. I've talked to a few male authors who I threw the idea past, but right now that's not my next step. We'll see, it's on the list.

Matt Hall (13:52): But the gist of the title is, "Hey, you're busy. I'm going to help you find the thing when you dedicate time, you should spend your time on."

Zibby Owens (13:59): Yeah. And help you save the time by not reading terrible books and not ... Decision making is really hard, especially when you're tired and stressed and time constrained. I'm trying to take some of that pressure off by curating the selection of books. That's one way, and it's also just a way to show moms that I hear them and that they can hear me back as we're all in this together.

Zibby Owens (14:27): And it doesn't matter what kind of life you're living or where you're living or your circumstances. There's something so fundamental to parenting that we can all relate. And so I try to offer some of that.

Matt Hall (14:39): Okay. Let me ask you a couple of quick questions. When you're getting ready for something big, like maybe the Alicia Keys thing. What do you tell to pump yourself up or turn yourself on? What's your self talk?

Zibby Owens (14:52): My self talk is my husband. Because I'm always with Kyle before I do these things. And literally, he comes in and he's like, "Come on, you've got this." I know it's so sweet. He's like, "High energy, high energy. Come on." That's what he says. And then I go and do it.

Matt Hall (15:08): We all need Kyle.

Zibby Owens (15:09): We do. He's great.

Matt Hall (15:11): What do you wish more people understood about books or authors? Is there something you've learned about since you have this huge sample size of talking to authors? Is there something you've learned that you think more people should really understand or is underrated in some ways?

Zibby Owens (15:24): I know that people think books are hard work, but they're more hard work than you think and more teamwork. A lot of people are involved in every publication. I think aspiring writers compare their manuscripts on their desktops to publish books that are in stores. And it's not a fair comparison because as I've learned by talking to so many authors, they've rewritten their drafts over and over and over again,

Zibby Owens (15:48): Their agents have been over them. Their editors have been over them. They've had other people read them. It's a team project in a way after a while. And I didn't realize that as much until I spoke to them. And I think it should be a comfort to people who are trying to write themselves knowing. You're the one who wrote a book. You would know better than me, but that's one of the things I've found.

Matt Hall (16:08): What about the thing that you just started, we found time, which are these essays. How is that different or complimentary to what you're already doing?

Zibby Owens (16:17): It's complimentary. They're essays written entirely by authors who have been on my podcast or my new Instagram Live show. And I wanted to offer original content about all the things, not just books that moms don't have time to do. I came up with several categories of the things I heard people complain about the most. Moms don't have time to eat, work out, breathe, have sex and read.

Zibby Owens (16:41): Then I had authors write on all these topics. Now I have this whole backlog of essays and I'm really excited about it and have this great new editorial director. And every week we're coming out with several different essays on these topics. We're going to expand and have other features as well to make it more of a whole literary lifestyle type magazine. I have been debating doing a print edition, but I think it's complimentary in that they're getting to know the authors more.

Zibby Owens (17:04): And one of my main theories is that the more you get to know the author, the more likely you'll be to buy their book and to really enjoy their book. I feel like once you know the author ... When I got to know you and then I read your book, it was a very different experience than had I read your book and then met you. It gives it a whole different layer of meaning, I think, to get to know the person behind it.

Zibby Owens (17:24): This is just an extra layer and essays that I hope people will laugh at and will help them, or that will make them cry, or that will just again, make them feel less alone and more understood as they go about their busy lives.

Matt Hall (17:41): I want to ask you, there are some people who listen to this podcast who are businessy. And you've had a few businessy people on your podcast. And one of them is Ray Dalio, who's famous for running one of the largest hedge funds in the world, but also wrote a book called Principles. I find it very interesting.

Matt Hall (18:01): He also had your dad on the podcast who wrote What It Takes. And then I've been on the podcast. Do any of these people have anything in common? Or how do you pick your businessy folks?

Zibby Owens (18:16): You're all superstars of course. How do I pick my business people? My dad, obviously I was going to have on the podcast as long as he said yes, which I was not sure he was going to say. My dad is Steve Schwarzman, who wrote What It Takes. And he founded Blackstone a long time ago. And I was really excited. I helped edit the book and was just so thrilled with him and couldn't wait to have him on the podcast.

Zibby Owens (18:38): In fact, that was one of the most special moments for me was recording my episode with him. Ray Dalio's team asked me to have him on and I was like, "Sure." That was a thrill. And you, I met you and I really liked you and I wanted to see what your book was about. Then I ended up loving your books. That's how you came on. I'm not averse to having more businessy people on, but I just haven't. I don't know. I'm not against it.

Matt Hall (19:04): Is it hard to find good nonfiction businessy books?

Zibby Owens (19:07): No. It's just not my typical go-to book right now. But I am interested. I went to business school. There's a lot of business stuff that I do find super interesting. It's just not my primary focus for the podcast right now.

Matt Hall (19:21): Yeah. You wrote a great piece about, I'm not sure what parents intend for us to remember. But I'm going to tell you the things that I remember my dad doing with me or sharing with me that really have lasted or stuck. And it's so well done. You want to talk about that for a minute?

Zibby Owens (19:44): Yeah. I was trying to figure out what to get my dad for father's day last year. And usually I go with the same tie or bathing suit or book, swatch watch. One of my go to gifts for him. But I was thinking about it and I was reflecting on our relationship and how as I'm a parent, the things that I wonder what my kids will remember about my parenting hopefully not the times that I scream and cry in the bathtub and all those other things, but the good things.

Zibby Owens (20:11): And I was wondering if my dad even knew what really meant a lot to me growing up. Then I kind of wondered, "Does he even remember it?" I just started making a list and then I made it into an article of the stories he would tell me at night about Myrtle the turtle or holding my hand, walking me to preschool and just all these little moments that ended up being what I remembered the most. So I wrote about him.

Matt Hall (20:36): I think the first one was something called Milkshake.

Zibby Owens (20:42): Yeah. He would put me to bed at night and say, "What kind of milkshake do you want?" And I would say, "Chocolate." Then would put his arms around me and I'm showing you not that you can see this in podcast. But then shake me up and say, "Chocolate milkshake," and I would laugh. And it would be so fun. Yeah, it was so sweet. And he would stroke my eyes when I went to bed and was just so sweet and tender. It was really nice.

Matt Hall (21:06): One of the themes that ran through that piece was like the idea of giving your full presence to your kids. That his presence was in many ways of present. And as you were shopping with your own child, you were talking about whether the moments are perfect or imperfect. The value of understanding that not diluting your full presence is so important. It's really beautiful.

Zibby Owens (21:27): The other day I have four kids, as I mentioned in my little guy is five. And I don't often spend that much time alone with him because we're all together, but it doesn't even occur to me. And the other day we were jumping on the trampoline just for a minute. And he was like, "I've always wanted to go on the trampoline just with you." And that just made me want to cry.

Zibby Owens (21:45): Because I was like, "Have I never just been on the trampoline with him?" It's just these little things and these little moments. I could have easily missed that moment by doing five more emails, but I didn't. And that's what parenting is all about. Finding the time to stop the emails and squeeze in the really important moments because you never know when they're coming.

Matt Hall (22:04): You're so nice and sweet and empathetic, I feel like on the podcast and in real life. But you also have an MBA from Harvard. What was that about for you? And how did that time or that work? How does it influence if at all what you do now?

Zibby Owens (22:22): One of the ways it's influenced me is because while we were there, they must've repeated the mission statement 8,000 times. Which is to educate leaders who make a difference in the world. And I think about that a lot because when I do things, I am trying to make a difference. I am trying to be a leader and it doesn't have to be in politics. You don't have to be like that kind of leader.

Zibby Owens (22:44): But when this pandemic hit, I had that in the back of my head. And as soon as I realized the day I was here and I was like, "We're in it now, what am I going to do?" I was like, "I have to make a difference. I have to help. I have to be a leader in the way that I know how." And that's in my little book world really. It's inspiring that way.

Zibby Owens (23:05): The connections and people that I made there have really continued to help. The reason I even went to business school, I've always been really entrepreneurial and had all these different ideas, which I still have. Just idea, idea, idea, and probably most of them are terrible, but they continue to bubble up all the time.

Zibby Owens (23:23): And one idea I had was ... Well, it's not even worth going into. But I had this one idea and my dad had said to me, "Before you start any business, you need to go to business school." He went to Harvard business school and he was a big fan. And I was at the time working in marketing at Unilever and to get promoted to the position above mine you needed an MBA.

Zibby Owens (23:43): I figured, "You know what? There's no harm." I loved school. I could stay in school forever. I really loved it. I thought about being a psychologist and getting a PhD. And I thought about getting a PhD in organizational behavior and all these other things, but this seemed like the shortest and it couldn't hurt. I figured I would try it. And if nothing else, I could move up in the corporate ladder and brand marketing. And at best I could have more tools to be an entrepreneur. That's sort of why I went.

Matt Hall (24:12): Tell me what you're doing when you feel your absolute best.

Zibby Owens (24:17): I really love the feeling of writing. I love it. I lose all track of time. I am so immersed and happy and in a place that is very calming for me. I have a lot of anxiety normally. And so I'm always have a lot of energy and I'm running around doing all this stuff. But when I'm writing, I'm just centered and sitting and focused. I love that. I also really love reading. It's the same benefits really. And yeah, those are two of my favorite things.

Matt Hall (24:46): Well speaking of writing, you told me once that you have, or I'm going to say this. You have an amazing title for a book called 40 Love. Is this ever going to become a real thing?

Zibby Owens (24:59): Matt, I have been working so hard on this book. I am so frustrated. I want to throw it out the window. I rewrote it three times and I actually sent it out to a few publishers and it's not quite right for the five that I sent it to. But a couple of them had really specific, great comments that if I just could sit down and implement, they even told me other editors that they think would really go for it.

Zibby Owens (25:22): But I don't know the rejections alone of these couple of people. I'm just like, I don't know if I can do it again. I have this book. It is completely written. There are parts of it I really like. It's emotional and I think it will help people, but I don't know. I'm not sure. Hopefully after the pandemic goes away and I can scale back a little bit some of the offerings I'm doing and have a little more time to focus on writing again, I'll do it. But I don't know. I don't know. It's here.

Matt Hall (25:51): You've got the title nailed. Do you want to tell people what 40 Love means?

Zibby Owens (25:56): Well, the book is about falling in love again at 40. And I am divorced and remarried and I married my kid's tennis pro and my tennis pro and it's very salacious and nobody expecting me to do that. And it's a trip. It's based on my own life, which is where it gets me into trouble.

Zibby Owens (26:17): I fictionalized it and based it somewhere totally different and ended up developing some characters. But yeah, it's about starting over. Starting over at 40.

Matt Hall (26:27): I love two stories that I know connected to Kyle and how you met Kyle. One of the stories was about Kyle rejecting giving tennis lessons to your son. And that's part of how he met you. He was like, "Hey kid, you're not into this. I'm not going to teach you. Go get your mom."

Zibby Owens (26:42): Yeah.

Matt Hall (26:42): And there go. I love that story. And there's another story which is one day I played tennis with Kyle and afterwards we were talking and he told me a story about a tennis camp he was involved in. And kids really wanted to be in this camp. It was really a high energy, fun tennis experience. And at the end of one day, he noticed a young girl who was in tears and she was late to the camp but didn't get to experience it. And Kyle and some others redid a whole second camp just for her.

Zibby Owens (27:16): Yes, I remember that.

Matt Hall (27:19): If you shared all the nuances and color of that story, it's just so beautiful and it's speaks to the kind of person Kyle is. But back to you, I want to talk about how you define now for what you're doing, or maybe it's not even related to what you're doing now, maybe it's really to your family.

Matt Hall (27:34): But how do you define success or fulfillment? Because you're doing, you're cranking out so much stuff and you're building this great community. What does success or fulfillment look like? Is it just more or is it something else?

Zibby Owens (27:48): I feel very fulfilled right now. I'm really happy. But yes, I'm constantly trying to build towards something else. And I don't have something specific in mind. I would love to have a book on the bookshelves and bookstores. I would love to just go to a bookstore these days. But that is a goal that I haven't crossed off the list yet. I would really like to do that. Although I do have a new deal for two children's books from Penguin Random House. That's exciting.

Matt Hall (28:11): Congrats, yeah.

Zibby Owens (28:11): It's about a girl named Princess Charming. That's fun at least, but I really would like to get a real book on the shelves. Every time I get an email from someone who's like, "Your podcast helped me get through the day." Or the fact that I do TV shows, is the only thing I do in quarantine that gives me any rhythm or this book.

Zibby Owens (28:33): You showed me this book and it came into my life at just the right time. It's just what I needed. It's amazing. I feel like all these little jolts of satisfaction constantly and it all fuels me to do more and more and more. And I know that not everything I'm doing is getting a bazillion views or anything, but if I reach one person and I know that they're getting something out of it, I feel really successful. I just want to amplify that and reach more people.

Matt Hall (29:01): That's lovely. Where do you want people to learn more about you?

Zibby Owens (29:05): They can go to my website, zibbyowens.com, Z I B B Y O W E N S. It has everything. It has the podcast, it has the new magazine We Found Time. Partners, all my COVID-19 branded offerings, my virtual book club, which I'm really excited about. That's where they can learn about everything. And also to follow me on Instagram @zibbyowens, because I'm always posting what I'm up to.

Matt Hall (29:29): Yeah. What is the best long view example from your life where you've delayed gratification and it's really paid off? Do you have a great example from your own life of where you've taken a longer view or taken a short term sacrifice for some longer term gain?

Zibby Owens (29:45): I would say having kids.

Matt Hall (29:46): Yeah.

Zibby Owens (29:51): I've taken the long view on kids and sacrificed every day happiness as I muddle through that. No, but in all seriousness, it's hacking away at a sculpture a little bit at a time. Trying to get some of these things across to the kids or changing a behavior or all this stuff. And each day it seems like it's just not having an effect and I just have to keep at it.

Zibby Owens (30:17): And then one day it will pay off and I get glimpses that my influence is helping, but I have to say, I have to just think far ahead and not stay in the moment in the moment of the kid tantruming or feeling like a failure. And remember that this is my job and I will make X kid more empathetic or Y kid more resilient or whatever it is I'm trying to do that day. And I have to be in it. I just have to go for the ride.

Matt Hall (30:45): Yeah. Have you taught them any lessons, either from what you're doing with Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books or lessons about affluence or wealth that you think have really stuck with them? What you've taught your kids either about business or about money.

Zibby Owens (31:00): Everything I'm doing is to help people. I'm always talking to the kids and showing them. When I say I'm going to my room to do a podcast, "Why are you doing a podcast?" Or even my five-year-old asks, "Why are you [inaudible 00:31:10]?" I'll just say I'm doing it to help them. I'm trying to help other people.

Zibby Owens (31:13): And even during COVID-19, we'll go to the dinner table and I'll say, "Okay, well today I gave money to Mount Sinai Hospital because they're doing really amazing things to help other people." And we all gave money to them today. Surprise, sorry. I share with them when I donate to certain places because I think it's really important. And I explained why I've donated and why it's important and why I give of my time and why I'm not doing my whole podcast.

Zibby Owens (31:40): All this stuff I'm doing, I'm not doing for money. In fact, I told any small businesses that wanted to be a sponsor, advertise on my show. I just can't in good conscious, except money for that right now with everybody struggling. I explain that to the kids and that not every job, not every endeavor is about earning money and that fortunately I can do this as a service. And it's something that I love and that I hope they love.

Zibby Owens (32:04): And it's so important to give back that I've used all my free time to give back. And also it's enjoyment for me, but yeah, just the importance of making other people happy and giving back to other people and doing what we can to help others.

Matt Hall (32:22): I like having you on this side of the microphone. I like getting to ask you questions. You do such a good job inquiring about other people's stories. And I just want you to know, I think it is so generous what you're doing. I think no one else is shining a light on authors the way you are. I love hearing people on your podcast about their work.

Matt Hall (32:40): Some people are great writers and maybe not as good talking about their work, but you do adds a new dimension or a new layer to even books that I may not read. I just love hearing about their method or their process or the way they develop the characters. And I've bought everything from cookbooks to lots of other things that I didn't expect to read because you helped me get interested or added some sort of spice to a story that was enough to stretch me into a new category at this point online bookstore that I may not have visited recently.

Matt Hall (33:14): Thanks for what you're doing. I think no one else is doing it, especially not the way you're doing it. And I love the vulnerability that seems to come along with the community you're building and the way you share. Because it's a different type of leadership. It may not be the type of leadership that everyone who has a Harvard MBA embraces, but I love the way you do it. Thanks for everything.

Zibby Owens (33:35): Thank you. That's really, really nice. Thank you so much for having me on your show.

Matt Hall (33:46): What book has changed your life? Please note the information shared in this podcast is not intended as advice. The intent is to share meaningful experiences. I am likely not your advisor nor wealth manager, nor financial planner, and my opinions are my own and not necessarily shared by Hill Investment Group. Investing involves risk. Consult a professional before implementing an investment strategy. Thank you.